The Norsemen’s Prayer Before Battle
November 2, 2007
“Lo there do I see my father.
Lo there do I see my mother.
Lo there do I see my brothers and my sisters.
Lo there do I see the line of my people back to the beginning.
Lo they do call to me;
they bid me take my place among them in the Halls of Valhalla,
where the brave may live forever.”
This is just flat out cool. It’s taken from the movie ‘The 13th Warrior’ which I recommend watching if you want to see Vikings do battle. The main viking Buliwyf, or ‘Bulv-eye’, is definitely a man’s man, and a figure of what every boy dreams of being. But in real life, Jesus Christ is the hero of this universe, and is what every man would hope to be. Here is some history on the Norsemen.
Restore The Gospel 
from one of the descendants of the Vikings clean I can with good conscience say that your god Jesus Christ is a god for the weak and under-throwing people … Norway was Christianized with sword and it is the worst thing that has happened. you broke the back of a warrior people who no doubt had become a superpower in today’s society.
you have not even the sense to pray to the true God in their own relegion. thank you son of this so called god that you submit yourselves to. weaklings .. your god has abilities that are useless. runs on water, heal the sick makes water into wine … a joke is this son of god. absorbs all fearful of people as long as they submit themselves to him on his death bed ..
Hail Aesir and Asatru! Praise be to Odin Allfather!
“Thor carries a hammer, Jesus was nailed to a cross. My god wins.”
Jesus rose again from the dead, Your god has never defeated death. Jesus will judge every person who ever lived. Thor will be an afterthought. It does no good to just nitpick from the Bible. You have to take the whole story into account! I love you.
Whoa Asatruan you fail to recognize the Triquetra and the Trinity, Wodin the All Father is God, Thor is Christ, you mix words too easily to recognize the path was true we just called them by our language, Ydrasil the tree of life for which we are no longer allowed, the demigods resemble many of the angels of Christianity, which states the way to the father is through Christ it never says not to honor God the Father. You may want to look a bit into theology, my family hails from Boeinigheim and we can trace our roots to Amberg. What you fail to recognize is the True Asatru faith is so similar to Christianity that the catholic church felt it should be stamped, Open you mind you might realize that even in the bible it talks of a tribe that always worshipped God from the beginning just maybe that was the Norse religion of the Germanic Tribes which Hospitatlity to all is one of the strongest of virtues in which we share with even strangers of other races and religion.
No where in the Bible does it say there was a tribe that worshiped from the beginning. Can you show me the chapter and verse please? The version of Asatru you are talking about it the kind that was intertwined with Christianity. Many whom hold to Asatru believe the Christians ruined what it originally was. Why would you want a belief system that has been intertwined with something else as an attempt to make people believe something else? Either believe in the original Asatru, or be a Christian. It makes no sense to be in the middle. Christian missionaries tried to take Asatru gods and Christianize them, no differently than the time of Emperor Constantine with pagan holidays and pagan gods.
As a Christian you don’t know your Bible very well, maybe look in the book of Revelations some of us have actually read not followed others readings.
Hmmm. Well gee… it’s called the book of “Revelation” (singular, because it’s about the singular revelation of Jesus Christ), not “Revelations” (plural). And I have read it, and studied it, and it says nothing about a tribe. And even if it did that wouldn’t prove which tribe it was unless it specifically stated.
I’m curious, why do you want to believe in Asatru after it has been Christianized? Why not either believe in the original Asatru, or orthodox Christianity? This makes no sense to me. And yet you reply on here that I am the one who should not follow other’s readings, yet how is that not exactly what you are doing?
Doesn’t the Norse “gods” lose in the battle of Ragnarok? It’s already foretold that they lose the battle and are defeated.
“Jesus rose again from the dead, Your god has never defeated death.”
But if he is the creator while would he need to defeat death seeing he woild have created it? This kind of argument makes you more a Christ-pagan than Christ-ian. You reject his createryness and make him like a pagan god lesser than nature who must defeat nature because he didn’t create it.
I wasnt talking to you Cameron I was talking to the person that couldnt follow the 9 noble virtues and wanted to be unhospitable, Revelation chapter 7.
Ok. Anyways, Rev says nothing about a tribe, other than the 12 tribes of Israel. What are your hobbies? Do you like ice cream? I find ice cream to be very agreeable!
I’m a descendant of vikings also…we are surely distant cousins. Greetings.
I am glad that most of our ancestors turned to follow Christ.
Far from cowardly, He heroically endured the worst tortures humans (and surely satan) could throw at Him. We can only guess at the unseen battles of the mind thrown at Him.
He conquered all, including the GREATEST foe humans face in this life…Death.
The Norse “gods” and, indeed, other faiths carry hints of a God who becomes a man…and there are hints of a God who helps protect others…and even in fairy stories is there a Prince in disguise. These cloudy hints…are met with the sharp edged hints of the Old Testament (written centuries before Jesus) where they talk of a Deliverer who will remove the “shroud that covers the nations”…i.e. eternal death.
It all comes together in the plain language of the New Testament.
Well, Jesus did create the universe by speaking, upholds everything and everyone together within His own existence, entered into human existence by taking on the nature of his own creation, died and rose again, will soon judge everyone, upholds eternal punishment for the lawless, will be marveled at for eternity by the redeemed, and is sovereign over all of history and the cultures of every people group who ever lived including the Norsemen. So I sort of disagree with you that He’s for the weak. Sorry. 😦 It takes greater strength to submit to His Lordship, and it’s the pinnacle of weakness to pridefully reject Him in folly.
And if Christians took over Norway with the sword then that’s a problem with sinful people, not true Christianity. In fact, Scripture can account for why that’s evil. How does your worldview account for why that’s really evil?
Lastly, are you OK? You sound angry?
“It takes greater strength to submit to His Lordship, and it’s the pinnacle of weakness to pridefully reject Him in folly.”
wow, very telling words from a very inflated ego. solipsist much?
In other words, it takes greater strength to humble one’s self to Christ then it does to pridefully reject Him. Or if blomvik were correct that it’s indeed a week thing to submit to Christ, then to be consistent you’d have to argue that blomvik was a solipsist for not submitting to Christ.
But for some reason you don’t see that statement as ego-centric, which is an unfounded double standard on your part. Either way someone is going to make a seemingly ego-centric statement. However, the true Christian who submits to Christ does not do so out of his own strength but actually only because of God’s grace, thus he cannot boast in himself but in God alone.
That’s Christianity 101.
your savior jesus was nailed to a cross yes? It just so happens the thunder god my god carries a giant hammer you see the irony?
Yes, according to Scripture. Your thunder god also is finite and exists in time. In John 1:1 Jesus Christ is the eternal logos, creates everything finite (including Thor), and upholds everything together within his own being. Also, you may recall that in John 2 Jesus knew that he would die and would raise himself up from the dead three days later, and all of this was part of God’s plan of redemption for his own glory (Acts 2). God wasn’t taken off gaurd by it, but ordained it!
So ultimately, God killed God, not the Jews or sinners. They were simply the means to God’s ends and are still accountable for their sin. Jesus died in place of his elect, to reveal his own glorious grace to them. He also rose unto an eternally industructable body and those in Christ will likewise do so. If you’re positing a Jesus who died and stayed dead, you’re not critiqing Christianity.
So no, I don’t see the irony at all. The only irony is that you’d ask me if I see the irony.
Actually, Jesus created nothing. If you’re a Christian, God did and it’s a violation of the very first commandment to hold any idols before God. Not Jesus. By holding Jesus to the status of God, you’re sinning by idolatry. The same goes for making and displaying all of the statues and crucifixes of Jesus and the Virgin Mary.
Commandment 1 “‘You shall have no other gods before me.”
Commandment 2 “You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the LORD your God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments.”
Odin did defeat death. He hung himself from Yggdrasil for nine days and nights, and pierced himself with his own spear. Afterwards, he woke from the dead and seized the runes from Urd’s well.
Stanza 138: ” I know that I hung on a windy tree, nine long nights, wounded with a spear, dedicated to Odin, myself to myself, on that tree which no man knows from where it’s roots run.”
Stanza 139: “No bread did they give me nor drink from a horn, downwards I peered, I took the runes, screaming I took them, then I fell back from there.”
Personally, I’m a Nordic Pagan, but each should be able to worship as they choose. Please be more educated before you try to present an argument… Maybe you should turn the other cheek now.
Jesus corrected the Pharisees when they were in error, so I’ll do the same and correct you. All the major Christian creeds teach that Jesus is God, because Scripture clearly teaches that Jesus is Yahweh. Have you heard of the orthodox doctrine of the Trinity? Jesus is referred to as “the God” 7 places in the NT (in the original Greek), and Jesus fulfills OT passages referring to Yahweh, ie. John 12:41, and Rom 10:13.
As far as creation goes, have you read the NT?
John 1:3 “All things were made through him (Jesus), and without him was not any thing made that was made.”
Col 1:16-17 “For by him (Jesus) all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him. And he is before all things, and in him all things hold together.”
So by you not believing that Jesus is Lord of all creation, verified by his resurrection, then you sir are the one breaking the first 2 commandments and have made a false Jesus to suite your personal needs, and is idolatry. Jesus commands all people, from every nation and tribe, to repent and believe in him.
As far as statues go, I’m not a Roman Catholic! Did you know you are free to ask question on here before you assume? It’s part of mature dialogue.
that is the most ridiculous thing i’ve heard in a while. i was making a statement about your positive claim, not his lack of one. pay attention much?
i see all statements as egocentric. it’s impossible for them not to be. the level at which this self love plays a part is telling though. like sam harris said and i paraphrase, “if an atom bombwas dropped on israel, you’d see a silver lining in that mushroom cloud.
you say it multiple times. you can’t wait to die and see jesus. it’s all about you guy. stop denying it and try being consistent for once.
by the way, if you can’t submit but through gods grace then congratulations on being a robot, devoid of moral autonomy.
that is the most ridiculous thing i’ve heard in a while. i was making a statement about your positive claim, not his lack of one. pay attention much?
I know you were. And I was making a claim about how if you say I was ego-centric to be consistent you’d have to say the same for him. Now that I’ve brought it up you are consistent and say “I see all statements as egocentric”.
However, here’s the thing with that statement. It assumes that all desires for pleasure are egotistical, hence why you say that I’m being selfish to want to be with Jesus. The real issue is this: is there any pursuit of pleasure that is ego-centric, yet in a good way?
Yes. There is in Christ if we were created to savor Him above all else. Just like a bird isn’t ego-centric for wanting to fly. It’s just doing what it’s created to do, yet also enjoys it. The same would be for the redeemed in Christ.
by the way, if you can’t submit but through gods grace then congratulations on being a robot, devoid of moral autonomy.
If you’re really congratulating me on this then you’re not a Naturalist. God changes my spirit, not my biological makeup, so that I no longer am hostile to Him but love Him. More accurately then, He restores my spirit to that which it was intended. That’s different then controlling my every action. And actually its Naturalism that precludes free will because you’re actions are really just a byproduct of your physiological makeup. That’s why you’re also inconsistent with your uptight tone in your replies. You’re not mad at me for my beliefs. If your worldview is true then you’re really mad at nature. Damn nature!
i don’t waste my energy being mad at you, lol. i really enjoy pointing out how wrong you are and how often you make grandiose claims about things that you obviously know very little about.
once again, your lack of ability to distinguish between what words mean and what you think/want them to mean is showing.
acknowledging that there are no selfless acts does not equate to every act being solipsist. you necessarily worship yourself by worshiping god. you must first put your own ability to assess the truth of your religion on the same pedestal that you now place the deity in your religion. you worship your choice to worship.
the tired old “naturalism precludes free will” argument. it’s too bad that it relies on a fallacy of composition. that’s only one reason why the position is erroneous but it’s enough.
do you deny that you would see a silver lining in a mushroom cloud over israel?
i really enjoy pointing out how wrong you are and how often you make grandiose claims about things that you obviously know very little about.
Again, in your worldview you’re pointing out what nature is having me do. You’re just arguing with nature, or as atheist Dan Barker puts it, “atoms banging around” or “cosmic brockley”. Congradulations!
And you’re conceding that you have no free will because you’re just a byproduct of your physiological makeup up since you gave no actual arguments but just provided blank assertions.
acknowledging that there are no selfless acts does not equate to every act being solipsist.
I think you’re saying a person can be neutral, or neither self-centered or selfless. So what? That’s changing the subject.
you necessarily worship yourself by worshiping god. you must first put your own ability to assess the truth of your religion on the same pedestal that you now place the deity in your religion. you worship your choice to worship.
You clearly haven’t understood what I’ve clarified above about how God enables me to love Him first, and that’s what I was created and intended for, thus my will is restored and is willing that which it was intended for. Thus, your point is called a strawman and shows you’re not interested in honest dialogue.
do you deny that you would see a silver lining in a mushroom cloud over israel?
Rom 2 and 9 teaches that the true Israel is God’s special chosen people, whom are revealed by His Spirit changing sinners hearts to now know Him and love Him. The Israel in the sense of the physical decendents of Abraham were an OT foreshadowing of this true Israel. As far as the physical land of Israel goes, there’s nothing in Scripture which promises the physical land to them for today, let alone there being a “silver lining” (whatever that is). Are you serious with these questions? Are you really seeking the truth in your mind and life? You should just give up while I’m ahead.
Try engaging in real honest dialogue on this thread. Seriously 🙂
In all of your supposed argumentation, you’re just arguing with nature according to your worldview. Why are you wasting your time arguing with nature???
i have. i’ve called you out on this fallacy of composition and you still refer back to it like a cornered animal, so maybe you really are at the mercy of your instincts.
did you delete a post of mine? is that what you call, “honest dialog”? way to set an example.
No, you believe all is nature, so I’m correct that you’re just arguing with nature according to your worldview. According to my worldview, that’s insane, but to yours it’s the way it is.
Yes I deleted it and have no problem deleting posts that have to deal with “silver linings” or other things which make no sense, especially when I highly clarified what I believe Israel to be. That’s an honest attempt to have an honest dialogue. 🙂
and i clarified my statement. you know exactly what i mean and you’re lying when you say it doesn’t make sense.
now are you going to answer my question? are you going to be consistent with your worldview? are you eagerly awaiting signs of armageddon?
I have no idea what you meant, and you can’t say I’m lying because my worldview accounts for lying, not matter banging around.
I’m waiting for Christ’s return yes.
so, have you gotten anywhere on those citations that show that a neural system is no different than a rock?
Again, again, again, you’ll have to ask them if they make those distinctions, not me. I gave you the names of the debates you can listen to where those statements were made quite frequently by the naturalist (who lost by the way). I don’t know what their position is on which kind of cheese is better either, swiss or american. If they make those distinctions too, you’ll have to also ask them that.
no i don’t. you’re the one parroting the sound bytes. i’m not debating them.
so tell me, you who claimed that matter can’t be defined, how exactly do you come to so many conclusions regarding what possibilities matter entails if you don’t know what it is? could it be that you are simply regurgitating your favorite apologist without a full understanding of what you’re trying to argue against? that’s what it sounds like to me. i’m guessing from the vibe i get from you that humility is not even on the table and you will continue to act as if your baseless certainty actually equates to reality. well, have fun with that inconsistency, hypocrite.
Listen to those debates and then you can take it up with Dan Barker. If you listen, you’ll see that I never misrepresented his worldview.
As far as matter goes, I’ve already told you the major ways I distinguish finite matter from eternal non-matter and finite non-matter. This is nothing new! Just because I can’t explain something exhaustively doesn’t mean I can’t refer to it. I have no problem admitting this.
My favorite apologist? Cute. There’s a lot of arguments I have about matter that I’ve never heard Christians make, which I have been making on here. And as far as where I first heard of these arguments on matter (your god), I developed virtually all of my position by reading a non-Christian book on neuro-science and consciousness where many in the field give their opinions and say these same things. There’s even a non-Christian movie that makes some of the points I was making. I’ll give you the name if you want (if I can remember it).
“baseless certainty”? What I believe to be certain is an outworking on what I most infer, just like you. And who cares if I’m a hypocrite in your world. I’m just a byproduct of “nature”. According to my worldview, you really are a hypocrite for being inconsistent with your worldview.
then debate with dan barker!!!!!! geesh. talking to you is like talking to a brick wall. if you’re not willing to support your claims then why make them?
you have no way to distinguish “between” those things. you have a way to speak as if you do, that’s all. but you can’t actually distinguish between anything that doesn’t have any quality that you can attest to. how is this a difficult concept. you are basically saying that there is an arbitrary non-quality that you can’t define, that you can’t actually refer to in comparison to real, existing entities and slapping the name “god” onto it.
i’m not being inconsistent with my worldview. i’m being inconsistent to what you desperately need my worldview to be. there’s a huge difference and if you can’t grasp that distinction then why are you even pretending to be sincere?
what’s the movie?
He already lost the debates I recommended for you to listen to. I supported my claims. I gave you the names of the debates where he made the claims I said he made. Follow?
“Entities” just means “something” or “stuff”. That’s what you’re defining “definition” in terms of. I do believe that the supernatural is also comprised of entities. I also distinguish between “nature” (God’s mindless and moral-less creation) from His sentient creation (angels and humans who are moral and use the laws of logic) and from Himself. Matter takes up space in the realm we detect with our 5 senses, and God takes up space beyond this realm, and holds this realm together within His own being. Then the human soul is something we don’t detect with our 5 senses, yet infer conceptually because of its a-priori qualities.
You’re inconsistent because everyone is just a byproduct of their biological makeup with neuron firings which give the illusion of our experience, yet all would be matter in motion in the end, yet you talk to me like a being created in God’s likeness and expect me to reason as He does.
The movie is The Oxford Murders.
i’m not going to do your legwork for you. if you don’t want to cite and source here, then just don’t make claims based on another mans statements that you refuse to quote. simple.
the very concept of taking up space is reliant on matter. space and patter are inexorably connected. sorry. you make no sense by saying that god takes up space outside of matter. it’s an incoherent thought. you can’t claim that you infer somethings qualities if you have no coherent way of describing that relationship. simply stamping the phrase, “a priori” onto to it does not fortify your position. until you have a way to relate to those qualities and relate those qualities to others, you’re just playing a speculation game.
i talk to you like a human. a being with an advanced neural system that entails the ability to choose, to express, to contemplate. it’s you who presuppose that naturalism can’t have real experience because it makes you feel better about your faith. we aren’t talking about the end. we’re talking about right now. and right now, i’m alive and experiencing life, naturally. neuron firings give us the ability to experience. you’re basically saying that in naturalism, all that you are and all that you do, you aren’t and can’t do. this is ludicrous and baseless to the point of being laughable.
lol, I did give you the source, just not in APA or MLA format. So what? You say I’m prideful yet you keep bringing up this pointless issue.
God is what I call the eternal prime cause which would have caused matter. That’s the relationship. Matter doesn’t account for itself. I did relate apriori. I relate it to you using the laws of logic to reply to me on here, yet these laws are prescriptive and not experienced with the 5 senses. That’s not speculation. That’s what people have known for years.
You have no bases to trust your experiences, or what you perceive to be real. You’re speculating that you can trust random neuron firings in your brain which are only made up of mindless atoms. You believe matter in motion is all that is needed to “trust” all this so you can uphold your faith in naturalism.
No, naturalism is laughable because life doesn’t come from non-life, intelligence doesn’t come from non-intelligence, and absolute apriori doesn’t come from non-absolute apriori.
Now, any more posts from you I’m just going to delete. You haven’t account for any of these things with naturalism and you’re not going to because you can’t. I’m going to finish debunking your other replies later and also not let you continue on those because I’ve already won there too and you’re just dragging it out. Sorry. May God save your mind and your soul.
anyone who says they know who r what god is is crazy .if you could know what god was and what it wants how powerful is it.
The Christian God has revealed himself in Scripture, as handed down from history, and his dealings with people in history. That is what is referred to as special revelation. On top of that, everyone knows that God exists, some just suppress that truth. What other God would it be then that one who’s nature comports with reality, and enters into history (Jesus), to fulfill his promises, and make himself known? Today’s date (more or less) marks the time since he was here.
Anonymous,
Welcome back. Could you not resist my amazing blog?! In fact, I’ve missed you because no one else wants to talk to me on here except for legalistic Christians who fling mud and then leave forever. 🙂
I’m tempted to delete your reply Anonymous b/c I’ve asked you kindly, multiple times, to STOP throwing out blank assertions on here!!! Give REASONS! But I won’t be like the Atheist Experience jerks (who have itchy hang up fingers) and I’ll graciously let it slide.
It is not crazy to do thought experiments on what is the necessary precondition for the a-priori reality you have a pre-commitment to every day and end up with an eternal, all-good, being (I call that God). Namely, what is necessary for Anonymous to have a pre-commitment to be rational as opposed to non-rational? What in nature determines this? Nothing in “nature” can determine this because “nature” only shows us “what is” not “what should be”. An eternal mind is a necessary precondition for us to have a pre-commitment to be rational because that is the bases of a standard we ought to follow – if we’re made in the likeness of that standard (which animals aren’t). “Nature” is a horrible candidate for why we should be rational. And you don’t know what “nature” is either. There is the “string”, but we don’t exhaustively know what it is, AND it is said to not even take up space.
On to your second point, Anonymous wouldn’t you expect an all-powerful being to be able to reveal its will to its own creation if it so chose? After all, since it’s all-powerful, revealing its will would certainly be within the scope of its power! I digress on this point because you have no argument there. But I think you meant to say “how eminent is it”. Theologians use the word “eminent” to refer to the attributes of God that are “holy”, “other”, or beyond our knowledge and understanding. Yet, this does not preclude God from also being transcendent, or able to reveal certain attributes of itself to its own creation. In fact, according to Scripture, Christ does this for his own glory and our joy.
I would like to mention probably the best quotation from a book on the topic of the Christian and Norse religions.
It is from ‘Age of Odin’, by James Lovegrove.
The main character asks Odin what the capital-G God is like. To which Odin replies, “…I don’t believe in Him, and if He does exist, I don’t like Him. His type of gods aren’t gods who echo how mortals behave. They’re gods who are held up as example of perfection to be emulated. They’re not gods of the people. They’re remote and inaccessible, they demand blind, unthinking obedience from their followers. They’re dictators. We Aesir and Vanir, by contrast, are mirrors. Other gods rule. We reflect and magnify. We are you, only more so. We share your flaws and foibles. We are as humanlike as we are divine, and I think we are all the better for that.
Anyway, thought that idea might be pertinent.
I wouln’t want a God whose prone to error. Jesus Christ was fully human, yet was perfect. He wasn’t distant, but came to us as a perfect person. Why would one want a hero in a story who fails?
Personally, I think that if Jesus Christ was perfect than he was not human.
Humanity is to be imperfect and every ancient religion I know of reflected that in their gods.
And why would anyone want a story where the hero was incapable of failure. To me that is not heroism, heroism is striving to win in spite of failure.
Besides, a story without the chance of failure is boring. Oh, our hero is facing a million bad guys riding in nuclear dirigibles and he’s armed with only a toothpick, and surprise surprise he doesn’t fail, ho hum.
In all seriousness, failure in stories builds drama. And, I think, that a little failure in gods makes them easier to believe in.
By definition of God being eternal, sovereign and all-powerful he can’t lose, thus if he can’t lose he can’t really “win”. You can’t win unless you can lose, and he can’t lose. He forms everything that happens in history. From our angle he wins though, because we’re the one’s whom are imperfect, sinful, prideful, and evil. There is failure in the gospel story. It’s our failure of being sinful.
Fair enough.
But, in the gospel stories, do they really lose.
Doesn’t god (at least in the new testament) forgive them when they die? I have herd that he is infinitely forgiving.
(just a thought; is your idea of god male or female, or possibly non gendered?)
The gospels show Jesus forgiving many of his accusers, but also condemning those whom refuse to repent. It’s not either/or but both/and. He is infinitely forgiving, but only for those whom are in Christ, and believe and repent of their sin. He is also infinitely just, thus punishes those whom don’t believe and don’t repent.
In a sense God is gender neutral, however, in another sense he has predominantly chosen to reveal and communicate his attributes to us in the role of a male. However, God also communicates and reveals himself to us taking on feminine attributes as well, especially with the 3rd person of the Trinity, the Holy Spirit (being neuter in the NT Greek language with “pneuma” or “spirit”), and being the one who comforts and preserves the church.
what the hell is with all the god and Christ talk around here get your head out of your ass and take control of your own life Christians make me sick
So you’re saying you don’t have the strength to let Christ be Lord of your life? That’s pretty wussy man! Scripture says that people will be anti-Christ, so you’re really just fulfilling Scripture in your reply.
Ya know cameron your religion is ONLY two thousand years old as to where my religion Astaru ( the religion of the vikings) is over TWENTY THOUSAND YEARS OLD how are you saying that we are wrong? who is the wrong ones here? your god and jesus wasent even a made-up idea when my gods were around.
jianenes,
You’re comitting the “my religion is true because it was around longer” fallacy. The reason this doesn’t work is because 1. polytheism assumes your gods to exist in time, hence why they have only been around 20,000 years. They are finite. 2. The God of Scripture, Yahweh, is revealed to be the one eternal God who is infinite, and creates everything that is finite. So even if your gods did exist, they would have been created by Yahweh. Sorry. You lose. Nice try though.
Without an eternal starting point, a worldview becomes incomplete.
The Norse Pagan religion is started by the end of Ragnorok in which a man and woman are made by the gods near an oak tree and start the human race over again and it is said to have things happen and end with Ragnorok again and goes through again
Thanks, but I can’t find anything on the internet that gives more specifics about Ragnorok. Do you have a good link? Is he said to be eternal? Did anything or anyone create him? I’ve also read that it is not a god but an event which mean ‘destruction of the powers’. Is that true?
Cameron listen to your mid mannered god with his serpent tongue. What you don’t realize is the anti-christ described in your precious book is actually your own god. But then again those of weak minds always flock to christianity to save them.
How can Christ be the anti-Christ? Even when Jesus was falsely accused of a similar accusation he stated that it makes no sense for himself to be against himself, because then it would be a kingdom that falls apart (paraphrasing). Nice assertions though.
The Eddic Peoms depict a war amoung the Norse Pagan gods of which all are destroyed…following the war, a new god was expected..could this new god be Jesus Christ ?
That’s of course written afterwards by Christians, isn’t it? Or was it there all along? How would we know?
Who gives a damn which one of you is correct? You are all ego-centric and self righteous. I say to each their own…play nice children…..
“who gives a damn which one of you is correct” + “to each their own way” = “who gives a damn about each own way”. Huh?
The person who says everyone else is ego-centric and self-righteous is usually the most ego-centric and self-righteous. Nice try.
I have a question.
Does Christianity state that humanity should worship no other god but the Christian god?
Deut 6:4, the shama, which the israelites have been quoting for thousands of years says there is one God, and the first 2 of the 10 commandments are to worship no other gods. All other gods are man made and false. Christianity is monotheistic. Have you read the bible by chance?
So the Christian god doesn’t want people worshiping ‘idols.’
What about the cultures and religions that came before Christianity?
What happens to the Romans, Greeks, Gauls, incas, olmecs, aztecs, Chinese, Japanese, Mongols, Indians, australians aborigines, Mauri, all the African tribes, and countless other cultures, religions and peoples who lived before the Christianity started?
Incidentally, no, I have not read the bible. I have discussed religion with a few of my friends, of varying beliefs, and I think I have a moderate grasp on most types of Christianity. I’m probably wrong, but hey, it’s the Internet, not a term paper. 🙂
Christianity was the first religion because the first two created people interacted with and knew their Creator. God is sovereign. He can save whomever he wants, whenever he wants in geography and human history. The Bible teaches this.
What about cultures on other continents who, at the start of the cristian religion, and continue to worship differently?
Would he save them uppon their deaths?
…Wait?
Do you believe that pre Christian cultures never existed?
There’s the Christian era, and there’s Yahweh, the one eternal true God saving his people. God is sovereign even over false religions before and after the Christian era but nevertheless, will have grace on many who once weren’t in the truth but eventually come to the truth of the gospel of Christ. It can be right before death, however, Scripture teaches the road to salvation is narrow and the primary means by which God saves people is through his church being faithful and proclaiming the fullness of the gospel message.
my ancestors were vikings. Still, I cannot believe that ANYONE would speak so low about Jesus Christ or God, for that matter. The earth and our universe is both elemental as WELL as spiritual.
This post made me sick. Cameron If Christ was real and read any of the things you have posted he would be so ashamed of you and your stupidity.
Why?
gods are aliens we all know that. science and religion are one now. gods not who we thought it was its a super specie who hath farmed man. Vikings just happened to kick ass in there time. all gods age back to the Sumerians. which was the dawn of man in the form of writing known to date. all theology is rooted here. please be open and please google that shit if you have yet to read about it.
answers lay in fact
instead of “winning” an argument why not teach truth and just simply be confident because your teachings are the most logical, wich speak of a giant ancient race of people( giant skeletal remains found). who would have built the pyramids and atlantis. and had such strong knowledge of astronomy and geometry. hitler belived in this supreme race. look it up. he thought they lived in the center of earth and that earth was actually hollow and had a subworld safe from the harshness of open solorsystem.
Cal, didn’t your mamma ever teach you not to blog when you’re drunk?
I have read most of the previous posts on this sight and while my family is decended from the norse i am a christian. Unfortunatly Cameron has not done a good job explaining my religion but insted has decided to talk in circles and be closed minded. I see the point of both sides but for future refrense Asatru is a more historic and ancient religion which may be the correct religion, we will all know after we die weather it is or not. but Cameron next time give straight answers to questions and listen to what these others have to tell you and you might learn something.
To all of those who are Asatru i am very interested to discover more about my ancestors. Could you post some links which would help me to learn mor about their beliefs and culture?
Jesus isn’t real so there. learn a little about your religion. you worship a book written by man and put together by men. Look up Constantine and his indirect involvement in the bible. At least in Islam an Angel dictated the Koran. You get all your words from a single person. and you hold your blind faith in that persons words. When Constantine commissioned a bible to be written there where many “proto-bibles” written. So a role of the dice by man chose the right one that you “worship”!!!. Guess what I am Gods Son. Maybe in a couple millennia people will believe me. Cameron do you believe also that evolution should not be taught in school? All you bible thumpers are so critical of everyone else but you have you head so far up you butts you don’t realize you too worship a false god. your so called religion is also responsible for some of the biggest tragedies the world has ever seen so own those. Pick up a non-fiction book, maybe about the big bang or evelution, and learn something that may be of some use to you. thank you for your “holy time” hahaha. Such a Joke!!!!
Derek I would like to say you are a good Christian!!! and an Intellegent one please disregard my comments
Thank you Patrick. and did you have any information regarding the other part of my post about places where i might learn more about my family liniage?
Derek,
I think you’re describing Patrick not me. I’m willing to listen and be open to others ideas. Patrick clearly is the most closed minded to reply on here in a long time.
Is this guy representing Asatru correctly? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDvPdWBeEFc
If so, then Asatru is very different from orthodox Christianity. Do you believe in the need for a Savior? Do you believe you have sinned and broken God’s moral law and deserve eternal punishment for it? If Asatru doesn’t hold to these things then it certainly isn’t Biblical Christianity.
Patrick,
There’s more historical evidence for Jesus than anyone from antiquity. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Even liberal scholars like Crossan and Ehrman believe he definitely exited in history. Try again.
If you were in the crowds following Jesus you would have heard his harsh saying and would have walked away, given the fact that you assume that Derek is a “good Christian”, while he clearly doesn’t hold to the teachings of Christ. Jesus said that “there is no way to the Father but by me”, and that “you do not believe because you are not my sheep. My Father knows my sheep and he will give them to me.”
Also, way before Constantine was emperor there were transmission of the NT spreading all over the distant regions. Constantine NEVER had, nor would he been able to have, all the NT manuscripts in one location. That is a myth that the ‘Da Vinci Code’ popularized, and only remains on the internet for ignorant idiots whom want a desperate reason to disbelieve the truth. Even liberal scholars know that is bogus.
I think the problems of Naturalistic interpretations of Evolution should be taught in schools. I think the icons of Evolution need to be stripped out, as I was taught those idiotic icons. I think teleos needs to be accepted in the classroom, yet public schools these days are so compartmentalized and secularized that this will never happen. I think it needs to be taught that Darwin stole the concept of survival of the fittest from a sociologist and applied it to biology, and never was a sufficient mechanism for macro evolution. I think it needs to be taught that similarities in genes doesn’t necessarily prove Evolution. Correlation doesn’t always prove causation, otherwise we could also argue that a great amount of dissimilarities could also necessarily disprove the theory.
Also, don’t make assumptions before you post. Try to have a respectful conversation. You don’t need to be the lone ranger machine gun for your worldview. Take a breath and reply with doing some research first. If replies on here go off the charts on the dumb and annoying scale then I delete them. It rarely happens but it has been done before.
Cameron
I do hold to the christian faith but not to the way you see it. I believe that we need to be saved by giving our selves to God but i also believe in the moral and mental charicter stressed by ancient asatru. If you still question my dedication to christianity than maby you will understand this. when christianity was first introduced to the viking culture the people that accepted it held strong to the christian faith but they still held to the moral compas of ancient asatru. this is the place i find myself. while i am christian i also try to understand and respect the way of my ancestors. if you do more resurch on the history of asatru and compare it to lessons in the bible then you will realize while our god(s) are diffrent, the way in which we are told to live our lives is very much the same.
Derek, what do you mean “not to the way you see it”? At what points do you disagree with orthodox Christianity? I’m just curious because I’m confused where you might differ.
I think it’s important for one to not forget their roots and where they came from, and it is a very special and proud thing to be a part of. Many in the West miss out on those kinds of things because we have become so individualized.
I don’t know the details of how Christianity was intertwined with your history. I’m guessing they tried to borrow your gods and contextualize them into Christian terms. If so, then it wouldn’t be the first time that has happened in history, hence why we have Easter and Christmas trees, etc. which I think are dumb.
But don’t you agree that we shouldn’t just attach ourselves to our cultures and history just for the sake of culture and history, and that we should ultimately seek to attach ourselves to what is true? I’m sure you agree that there are many odd cultures in this world, that hold to many pointless traditions, and the reason people still hold onto them is because of a sense of belonging. However, I think the more correct theology we have and understand that God is a covenantal God, that we will experience the most belonging. In fact, it is the Trinity that makes “belonging” possible, because God is a Trinity and he is an eternal community. We are created in his image, thus long for community as well.
As far as morality goes, God does not call us to be moral for the sake of being moral. It’s not about what you do, but also why we do it. Just as the persons of the Trinity love to praise the others and not draw attention to themselves, so we find our greatest joy in life when we do the same. We are glorifying God when we do this because we are reflecting whom he eternally is. Even unbelievers can do this, but they don’t know the God whom they were meant to glorify.
I differ from modern christianity because i still hold to to the moral and mental aspect of the norse teachings. i believe in jesus but with all the diffrent denominations of our religion i have decided to follow a path less travled and believe in chrisianity but also hold to the meaning and life teachings of the anciant asatru even if i dont follow the overall religion. While this may still be confusing to you, I would like for you to study the moral and life lessons tought by asatru and concider the possability of believing in christ while also following the anciant teaching of asartru before you reply to my post. It might help you understand if you try to think of my ancestors and their beliefs and the many denominations of chrisianit.
I just updated my previous post. Please re-read what I just wrote! I don’t mind looking into your religion, but again, I maintain that only the Trinity can account for morality to begin with, and that even unbelievers can be moral because they are created in God’s image, they just don’t consciously glorify him in it.
I am a Protestant Christian, so I am well aware of the issue that arises from having Scripture being an ultimate authority, and having different denominations due to different opinions. However, even though there are many denominations, Christians today are far more orthodox than we ever have been in history. There are secondary matters that divide, yet there is always Christ whom unites all. When we strive to be consistent and faithful to Scripture, it will be easier to tell who is of Christ, and whom is lacking discernment and is deceived.
This will take more than simply studying a moral system. It requires looking into Scripture very in depth. No differently, we are living in the information age where people can make statements about anything. We have to be vigilant to look into it.
It is not just a case of morality but also one of what the respective religion teaches us. while chrisianity is baised on a single god (my god) many (BUT NOT ALL) denominations also baise it on a passive and submissive life style. i hold the belief that while god is the creater of all man and his word is law, there are several versians of what god has said (they have probably been selected by man as to which would be published in a bible) instead of following one virsion or another I follow the general idea of chrisianity but hold to the idea where strength in charicter and other norse virtues guide the way i live the parts of my life which are conflicted in one virsion of the bible or another.
Camron your IQ must be the Net weight of a jar of mustard. I wont be checking this any more I dont need to get into retarded convos with you camron. you call people closed minded but i think you are. and i think you have absolutly nothing going on in you life but to post things on the internet that arent completely true. I have no dout he was a real man. but was he the son of some god? no! he was some raving lunitic that would say things to people that would believe anything in a time where they had no idea about anything. Kind of like you!!! I am also Baptized Protestant. are you aware how your religon came to be? hahaha idiot. I have witnessed what your god is capible of in Iraq and Afghanistan. I promise you hes not there. All your scriptsure is a moral guidlines. Derek i am a firm believer to allow anyone to believe in what ever they want. It gives people hope. Camron is the what gives people like you a bad name. dont bother with his retarded christan “values”. All people are equal no matter what they beleive in.
i agree patrick this “man” is an ignorant and intolerant peerson who refuses to even attempt to understand others beliefs. i also belive in allowing others to have their own religions and attempting to understand them. thank you for not allowing cameron to make you think bad of all christians, you truly are a better man than most.
Patrick,
you have not dealt with any of my points, but have just name called. You have just gotten mad at someone on the internet. Congratulations. Why did you even bother to waste your time?
Derek,
You claim to want to uphold some type of noble “character”, yet then why do you say I am ignorant and intolerant? I already asked you to show me this in what I have stated and you have not answered yet. Why is it that we can have a polite discussion, but when some guy named Derek out there in the internet world makes personal remarks towards me, then you do the same?! Sounds like you will take sides with people whom compliment you.
Sounds like you’re not used to people giving you direct points, but that’s not my fault. If you take that as being “ignorant” and “intolerant” than maybe don’t blog.
You can’t say you hold to Christianity when you believe there are multiple versions of it, and when you don’t even know what version you accept and reject. I think when you say “Christianity” it’s really just a misnomer. Correct me if I’m wrong. I’m patient and I’ll listen if you want to show me that I’m wrong.
You also assume that man has messed up the Bible and that we can’t know God’s word. I would challenge you to look into the issue of textual criticism and learn how it is that we came to have the Bible we have today.
We can see God’s sovereignty in history in that he likes to use heresy and controversy to all the more bring about the truth. It seems that the King James Only controversy one of those arguments that has shed much light (I’m not a KJV Onlyist). In this debate James White does a great job of explaining how God’s word has been preserved over time.
Wow, time for another crusade to kill thousands of people?
Who brought up the crusades? Why are you bringing it up? I’m happy to talk about it and show that many people have huge misconceptions of the Crusades, but what does this thread have to do with it? Do you like ice cream?
Your gods are dead. Now mine is dead too, but he killed yours. He won, you lost, for the Asatru are only remembering glories of echoes past, and christians shalt follow the same path. No god can be along with man, for real man are stronger than gods.
You have broken the first and second commandment. You have made a god in your own image and you have made yourself out to be god. The one true eternal living God pleads that you and all people repent and turn to Christ.
Cameron – can you e-mail me? Not sure if you’ll ever get this. If you do: MN.Gruber06@gmail.com
I hate norsmens
“But in real life, Jesus Christ is the hero of this universe, and is what every man would hope to be.”
Bahahahhaah oh gods that is classic hahajha i am dying!!!
Do teenagers write this crap? Haha.
No offence to the puny christians of course.
Volhölhrafn,
Laughing isn’t an argument. It’s just a noise, like a clanging gong. What is your worldview Volhölhrafn and why is it superior? It’s amazing to me that you mock Christianity, yet a lot Norse religion is intertwined with it. It’s like when Muslims mock Jesus, yet also believe he is one of their sacred prophets. It makes no sense. Such interesting behavior.
This behavior reminds me of Romans 1:18-20, which all the more makes me believe the Bible.
this is a prayer for meal time.
Greetings to all…and to any other Viking descendants, a special greeting from me, one of your distant cousins.
I’m glad that most of my Viking ancestors came to the Lord. Many (tho not all) of my family follows Jesus today.
Perhaps some early Viking skeptics misunderstood the message of Jesus–and thought him weak. They did not understand the whole clear message.
Look at the death and resurrection of Jesus. He conquered sin and eternal death.
Amen.
Oh yes blessed are the simple!
not to trample on your beliefs people can believe what they want. but when it comes to people preaching christianity or even paganism people all the sudden become igonroent especially christians looking down on people who don’t share the same faith. shame on a lot of you. everything you guys are saying is based on your perception and mottled truths here and there. i hope for the day when man lets man be man and not think they have enlightened or better beliefs but simply treat your neighbors and fellow beings like your god has told you to, instead some of you preach and condemn people for living there lives different. these type of back and forth arguments people have shed blood over in history and present day. love each other and support others in things they hold sacred not hurting them or being rude because you do not like some else’s belief system.
You just trampled on my beliefs that people can be wrong saying you wouldn’t trample on my belief. You also are saying that I’m wrong to say that people are wrong. This is called “inconsistency”.
The history of christianity is truly a bloody one. Catholic monks, in the name of saving souls brutalized indigenous peoples where ever they meant them. It is a fact that when ever christians meant people with different beliefs they were converted by the sword, the rack and by torture, from the vikings to the native islanders of the caribean to southeast and central asia. Al done in the name of GOD, If I was christ, who was a man of peace, and saw all the evil that was done in my name I would be truly ashamed of my followers.
Yeah, that’s why I have many posts on here dedicated to why Catholicism is false.